Sorry for lack of posts recently but has been a bad week in various ways, although ironically, and annoyingly, I have been pretty healthy really. But not feeling myself, one way and another, and that is an essential precondition of writing.
Have a whole lot of seedstock posts ready for germination but so far the seed is falling on barren ground (which reminds me, inevitably, as it will remind you, of Dorothy Parker’s pet bird who she named Onan). Will try to get my scattered seed, sorry, wits, together soon and get back into the Passing Parade. Which reminds me, and will remind one or two of my more senior readers, of yet another feature of times past, the picture theatre newsreel. This ran before the major film, and was the only chance we had, in those pre-tv days, of seeing actual moving talking images of, say Churchill, Eisenhower, Olympic Games, wars, and other events, albeit in Perth some days after the things happened, because it took a while to fly the films in (just as it would take, if the Sun blew up, 8 minutes for us to become aware of the explosion, in Perth if World War Three had begun in the 1950s we would not have known for several days that the world was over). So popular were these newsreels that there was a small theatre, the Mayfair, which ran only newsreels interspersed with short comedies, notably The Three Stooges (not inappropriately), on a continuous rotation. You could enter at any time, guided in the dark by an usher with a torch, and sit for an hour or so until the segment was on that you had first seen when you came in.
OK, now back to where we were when you first came in. Have been doing a very occasional twitter series about things that annoy me (yes, yes, it’s a long list) and I thought I would do a more extended one here that wouldn’t fit twitter.
Often when there is discussion about, say, a racist incident, where for example football fans scream racial abuse at a black player (as happened, once again, this week at the European Soccer championships); Or homophobia; Or misogyny up to and including violence against women; Or violence in the streets; Or criminal behaviour of some kind, the cry will go up from family, friends, lawyers, oh, he didn’t mean it, he is a really nice fellow, he was drunk. He was not himself, in short, because of Demon Drink.
Nonsense. I don’t do any of that stuff when I am drunk (I alternate between raucous, maudlin, and going to sleep on the sofa) and I don’t know anyone who does. Those who do are not behaving “out of character” but totally in character as the firewater releases inhibitions. You want an excuse for behaving badly? Alcohol isn’t it. Perhaps you could blame your parents?
Three cheers David! Bottoms up!
Yes, the could blame their parents, as that is where most of get our values and beliefs from. As parents, a top skill is brainwashing our kids: to be racist, misogynist, violent OR the complete opposite.
Of course, we don’t think of dragging our kids to church as brainwashing, but that is precisely what it is. We think we are raising our kids “properly”. I am not included in the “we”, being an atheist, but I am sure I’ve transgressed in some way. We all do, it s human nature to pass on our values and beliefs to the next generation.
Breaking that chain is something we can do FOR our children. As adults, we can do ourselves a favour and choose our own value system, if we are strong enough as individuals.
Or we turn into Mel Gibson.
Most kids need a good “brain washing!” Their brains are wired to be selfish, mean and downright unkind; just visit an elementary school playground. A biblical value system is a pretty good value system to teach a child: be honest, be kind, work, be responsible, don’t lie, don’t steal, don’t murder, don’t covet, and don’t be selfish for just a few.
We sure don’t need any more Mel Gibsons.
But Mel Gibson had a very biblical value system: so much so he even started his own church!
An atheist value system suits just fine, as in addition to the values you mention it also includes wonderful things like tolerance for those “not the same as us”, cultural intelligence and other values not encompassed by mainstream religions.
I’d have to respectfully disagree that Mel has a “biblical” value system. If he did, he wouldn’t practice drunkeness, wife abuse, unkindness, or be anti-semitic just for starters.
Had no idea he started his own church. Love to learn things on this blog!
Yes, Eric. My mother, a devout Anglican, reckoned that “children are born uncivilized”. There were times when I certainly reinforced that opinion.
Nick H
Absolutely. There’s no excuse for being a social moron. And it’s well past time everyone – especially the excusers – recognised the fact.
And I’m with you on the affluence of incohol as well. I also rotate, on no known program, between raucous, maudlin (in my case more an intense introspection) and somnolent.
Wow David! You started off apologizing for “writers block” and then turned out a dandy of a post!
I remember getting drunk on the alcohol my parents gave me and going to the 15 cent Saturday matinee and watching the exact news reels, 3 Stooges, Lash Larue, and The Cisco Kid until they started showing for the 3rd time. Then I’d pick a fight with the entire audience and wind up spending the night in the pokey for drunk & disorderly; tough way to grow up and life’s not been too great since!
Seriously, The Atlantic Theater did offer exactly what you just described (except for the slow delay). I grew up in Southern California so the studios were just up the way a bit and we got newsreels pretty quickly. Fond memories!
People don’t need alcohol or drugs to be unkind to one another; seems to pretty much happen “naturally.” You don’t teach youngsters TO lie, steal or hit; they do it naturally. You teach them NOT to do those things which are unkind to others. Unfortunately, there’s not as much teaching about those things going on by parents as there once was.
Eric as someone who is actively parenting at the moment I can assure you that parents are still teaching children not to be unkind to others. There are some adults who need to remeber this: Tony Abbott for one.
That many of us parents happen to be atheist parents doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference. Believe me I have met some outright ratbags who call themselves Christian. I only wish I believed in heaven so I could see them get their comeuppance when they got to the pearly gates and heard St Peter say ‘you’re joking right?’.
Of course I agree with you Mindy, most parents (atheist parents as well) are teaching their children. Our world would be a much worse place if they weren’t. And, I agree, ALL adults, as well as Tony Abbot, Barack Obama, Hu Jintao, etc. need to remember the importance of those principles.
I also agree that you don’t have to look far to find ratbag Christians (as well as atheists, Marxists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. etc.) But, that’s kind of the whole point of my comment about biblical principles. We need them to both guide our own behavior and a standard by which to examine others, especially our elected leaders. And, they should be taught to youngsters. Without those principles, it’s harder to tell the ratbags from the good guys!
I do believe there is a Heaven and there is only one way to gain admission.
I don’t think that people’s behaviour is only, even mostly, a matter of how well their parents brought them up – though that obviously counts for a great deal. But the “external” culture has a lot of influence too. There are many threads to it all, I suspect, but the contrast between the social mores of the 2010s versus the 1950s, say, includes one of greatly heightened violence in all or most areas of life (to the extent that a few years ago one could see a poster urging people to “Fight Domestic Violence”. Hah). Rarely go to the movies now.
Don’t ask me how we got from there to here. Like I said, lots of factors and lots of interactions between factors. But it isn’t only parents and I doubt that it has much to do with lessening public religiosity. It MAY have something to do with a lessened acknowledgement of public morality, but that’s a different matter. (There are time when I think that the last sin is paedophilia: everything else is acceptable if it makes money or provides jobs.)
What happens next? Dunno. Glad I’m in my 70s, sometimes. Be nice to see some moral leadership here, but it’d have to be non-religious if it’s to work. Sorry, Eric, but Christianity doesn’t seem to cut it in this area these days. Not credible, perhaps because like most religions it seems to focus more on form and process and power than on outcomes. Which pope was it who said that the Catholic Church should become more transparent so that “we can see out and the people can see in”? Think about it.
Nick H
PS Not having a go at Christians here, not at all. I don’t care what people believe or believe in: it’s what they do with it that counts.
Note that I didn’t write “Christianity”, I wrote biblical principle; big difference. Christianity and Christians can certainly seem to “not cut it” but biblical principles always have been relevant and always will be no matter the situation.
How “we got from there to here” is a “lessened acknowledgement of public morality”; relativism is a good term for it in my opinion. Your comment about the “last sin” being pedophilia (and I realize it probably was to make a point) is a classic example. Biblical principle encourages one man one woman for life, sobriety, honest work, kindness and a number of other great principles for society.
I DO care what people believe in, ESPECIALLY if they do something with it; e.g. Pol Pot & Idi Amin had strong beliefs and did something with them. Glad I wasn’t there!
I don’t believe in Heaven, and if I did I would not want to go there: a bit like the Queens Birthday Honours List – undoubtedly there are one or two laudable folk in the mix. However, to be elevated among the majority of the great over-washed would be a permanent. And a confinement among types I would prefer not to be associated with.
Heaven – there would be no rude puns; no cheeky cherubims – they, forever, in vocal harmony with never a bum note: The sight of a dour Beethoven having his left ear hammered by Bach’s well-tempered klavier while Purcell volunteers his trumpet from the right. Ghastly.
Well, that’s the Christian Heaven as I envisage it. Bad tastes, crook smells, the joy accompanying a wicked thought – bad enough to be divorced from the joy of contrasts they provide – but the ultimate disincentive is having the answer to everything and, in Robespierre fashion, the need for the curiosity of science would have been killed.
I much prefer the thought of disorderly reincarnation of my remains as compost, to be re-used as components for other living things.
Not quite sure where you got your information about Heaven Colin, but I’m convinced it’s nothing like your very descriptive words. I’m pretty certain there will be plenty of curiosity of science as I see no indication we will have “the answer to everything” there; no reason to think we won’t have mental capacity capable of learning and growing.
But, if you prefer immorality to morality, lies to truth, depression to joy, murder to life, sickness to health and “rude puns” to kind words, then you’ll probably be allowed to “compost.” Doesn’t make sense to me but we all get to choose; nothing forced down anyone’s throat.
Thanks Eric for putting upfront your belief in Christianity’s moral superiority over other beliefs. In my experience, my friends of various faiths – Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, – all these disparate friends are attached to their belief systems as that suits them; and have no need to engage debate in regard to comparative morality. We enjoy mutual friendship because we behave as decent people who give equal respect to the belief of others of similar behavior. I do not normally initiate theological argument, but heaven had already got a mention. Accordingly, I gave my take on it, as its definition is in the mind of the person contemplating it. This contemplation extends to – upon death, what stage of a human’s development/demise is chosen for the remnant(?) soul to be spirited towards its heaven? – just one of my disorderly thoughts. Cheers.
Colin
Always appreciate your thoughts Colin, and seriously consider them as I sort out my own convictions. I too enjoy long-term relationships I’ve developed with Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim and atheist friends. As well, I enjoy the respectful and vigorous discussions we have about many things, not solely spiritual/theological.
Please excuse any impression I may have given indicating Christianity was “morally superior” to other belief systems as I do not hold that view. I have met and done business with honest and moral folks that are not Christians. As well, I have met some and done business with some Christian folks who were less than honest and moral.
As I stated earlier, “biblical principle” I do hold to be superior to other principles when/if they diverge from them. As I’m sure you’d agree, there is only 1 “truth.” So, when “cultural/religious principles” say it’s OK for a husband to physically abuse his wife, I have to go with the biblical principle that holds to a husband loving and serving his wife. In a case such as this, I will rest comfortably with the biblical principle being true and the cultural principle being error.